|
Post by ComeOn on Nov 24, 2010 0:01:34 GMT -5
1. We don't know the truth of the sexual harrassment, but what possible reason could the department have for not asking the accused person to recues themselves from the tenure decision?
2. Everyone agrees that her teaching and scholarship were enough for tenure at Ithaca. What reason did the president have for rejecting it?
3. Do you know what it takes to get a college appeals board to overturn a department tenure decision?
4. Why would the four members of the department who thought her record to be good enough for tenure the first time, unanimously reject it the second time?
5. How can a sociologists who studies these patterns in gender, class and race inequality not recognize what is really going on? How can they not be a hypocrite?
If we saw this pattern in a government, we would condemn it. If we saw this pattern in a corporation, we would condemn it. If we saw this half-way across the world happening to those we will never meet, we would condemn it.
When it happens in our own departments, we accept it, and say who really knows what is truth?
|
|
guest
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by guest on Nov 24, 2010 0:40:13 GMT -5
My husband is an MBA. I hate to say it, but he and his friends are much more honest about any discrimination they see in a business. They don't want to work in places like Ithaca. It's not about the hypocrisy. Toxic places ruin people's careers. Why put your career in the hands of a bunch of backstabbers if you can find another place to work?
|
|
|
Post by OpenForum on Nov 24, 2010 9:55:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Schmipocrites on Nov 24, 2010 10:53:18 GMT -5
We're all hypocrites sometime. When I see the person who takes the Ithaca job, I won't think "hypocrite." I'll think that the pitiful schmo couldn't get another job.
|
|
|
Post by Diogenes on Nov 24, 2010 12:54:55 GMT -5
The person who takes the job may view the non-tenuring case differently than you do, perhaps having information from the department and administration about why they voted as they did.
|
|
|
Post by Zeno on Nov 24, 2010 13:11:39 GMT -5
That's sage advice. When I interview, I'll be sure to ask the department and the administration to explain their votes.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to hope that I'm a good enough candidate that Ithaca isn't the only place to offer me a job.
|
|
|
Post by GlobalGal on Nov 24, 2010 14:41:27 GMT -5
I applied before I knew. Now that I've got an offer at another school, it might be fun to interview. A free trip to Ithaca and a chance to make the bastards squirm.
Can anybody suggest what questions I should ask them?
|
|
|
Post by Heraclitus on Nov 24, 2010 18:11:41 GMT -5
The faculty could ask you specifically what you know about the rejected tenure candidate's teaching, scholarship, and service over the years in their department. Or would that make you squirm?
|
|
|
Post by GlobalGal on Nov 24, 2010 18:52:52 GMT -5
A scene right out of Oleanna. This just gets better and better.
|
|
|
Post by Mamet on Nov 25, 2010 15:43:40 GMT -5
A scene right out of Oleanna. This just gets better and better. In Oleanna, the sexual accusation against the professor is overblown if not bogus, and the accuser is unsympathetic. In the Ithaca case, the accusations seem to be of sexist (traditionalist) remarks, not sexual aggression. I do see the parallel, however, in that the Oleanna professor's innocent if awkward behavior (e.g. touching the female student on the shoulder; telling her to sit down and finish the conversation) is construed as sexual harrassment. Similarly, a denial of tenure (always a complex judgment call, but a normal academic process) is construed by some as sexist, classist, racist, "an obvious pattern" to some. In the play, there are no witnesses to decide the issue. In the tenure case, one side cannot reveal its rationale because of privacy and litigation restrictions.
|
|
|
Post by Wow on Nov 26, 2010 11:55:38 GMT -5
From one with inside scoop. There was not sexual harrassment. Maybe she wanted it. The appeals board was a bunch of women and, come on guys, they stick together! Give me high five! Besides this is all ancient history. The department is fixed now that we got rid of "Ms" Trouble. Obviously, Mamet/Thouroughly has some inside info. Maybe you can answer why you did not have the alleged harasser recuesed. And why you switched your vote from thinking she deserved tenure to denyiing, once the controversy started. I know you need to protect your identity, but may there is some clever way that you can "hypothetically" explain it, like O.J.'s If I Did It.
|
|
|
Post by HappyHoliday on Nov 27, 2010 16:46:59 GMT -5
I think the poster at whom "Wow" is upset was being sarcastic, engaging in overstatement for effect. That's always risky online and with passionate advocates.
The word is "recuse". Administration might recuse a committee member if there is clear evidence of bias, based on evidence brought either by the candidate, the administration, or the committee member her/himself. If there's no recusal, then the evidence was adjudged insufficient. Very legally cautious campuses recuse simply upon request, e.g. the candidate (for promotion or for appointment) may ask to have any one member recused without explaining why.
One reason that most universities do not appoint their own doctoral students as faculty colleagues is that those mentors who might best know the applicant should have to recuse themselves from appointment and promotion committees.
|
|
das
New Member
Posts: 1
|
Post by das on Nov 27, 2010 18:15:18 GMT -5
It would be great if anyone leaping to a judgment actually knew any of the real facts around the case. That's not going to be possible for you to figure out, given that many things have been taken out of their original context. (Yes, that does happen.) Further: I would like to challenge all of you to a nice library database or WorldCat search for any of the denied candidate's "publications." Then please return and tell me about the extensive list of publications and true professional accomplishments of the denied candidate.
|
|
|
Post by anony on Nov 28, 2010 10:51:50 GMT -5
Hmmm...I don't know anything about this case other than reading an article or two but I did google scholar search her, as well as through a few library databases (ProQuest, Soc Abstracts) and can't find a scholarly article or her CV (regular google search). Can anyone point to her CV?
|
|
|
Post by Puzzled on Nov 28, 2010 11:55:10 GMT -5
Hmmm...I don't know anything about this case other than reading an article or two but I did google scholar search her, as well as through a few library databases (ProQuest, Soc Abstracts) and can't find a scholarly article or her CV (regular google search). Can anyone point to her CV? An earlier post gave this blog on which are given several works in progress at the time of tenure review. ithacacollegeinjustice.blogspot.com/I don't see those works listed on the websites of one book publisher (Mellen Press) or the journal, and the other book publisher has no website. It's important to get accurate information about this case because this thread began with someone bashing the department faculty and college for an unfair decision, such that anyone who accepts a position there is worthy of censure. Perhaps there's a better source?
|
|