spousal hire

[phd done]

I need some advice. I am a recent PhD with a good publication record. I will be on the market for TT jobs in the Fall. I have a spouse who is also an academic (another disciplne; also good publication record and recent phd), and we have a 2 body problem. Much that I would appreciate any job, I would also like a job in the same university as my spouse.

Any suggestions on how to negotiate positions for both of us in the interviewing process? I know of some schools (typically in college town locations) who encourage hiring couples. I just dont know how and when to approach this conversation in the interview process. My department, though very supportive, has no resources on training graduate students for the market. Thanks.

[No name]

Typically you don't say a thing until you are offered a position. Then negotiate for your spousal hire. Don't give them any reason to weed you out of the pile.

[guest56]

i have seen that in some cases partners come in for interviews weeks apart. does declaring that you have a partner also on the market puts you at a disadvantage? i am not sure why it would. why should we be discrete? any thoughts?

[123123]

The reason that revealing you have a partner on the market as well can hurt you is that search committees are trying not only the best fit, but also the most likely candidate to accept the offer and stick around.

If a spousal hire is not an automatic thing they do, they might be afraid of offering a position to someone they know might not come or might leave soon because the partner hasn't found a job. If, howerver, you only reveal that after receiving an offer, they will then try to do everything they can to accomodate it, lest the search has to be cancelled or they have to dip back in the pool

[PhD done]

Thank you every one. This is somewhat helpful.

[yep]

Also, one of you better start thinking about backup plans if you want to avoid having a long distance marriage. University administration is a reasonable opportunity if you aren't in a big city, although staff without PhDs might not be as friendly to you.

[another view]

When my partner and I went on the market together, some schools who didn't know informally that we were a couple had a tough time pulling an acceptable offer together after they found out (we told them officially after an offer was made). The schools who knew were at an extreme advantage and already scheming, producing better results in almost all cases.

If you're both strong candidates, it doesn't hurt to put the word out there (on both sides). Most of the schools who are dissuaded will be ones who would come up with something sub-par (or who couldn't come up with anything) and those who are more likely to be able to do something will be the ones who still bring you out, so you're often not losing out on something all that valuable if anything at all.

[PhD done]

Thank you "another view." I think that it is reasonable for me to be open about the fact that I am interested in places that does spousal hiring. Ideally we would like to negotiate for two tenure track positions, and I have observed (looking at faculty listings) that some research state schools encourage that.

Could you also tell me when did you mention your partner? Was if after one of you interviewed, or did you put in your applications together? Also was your partner looking for sociology jobs?

Thank you all for responding. While we are both confident of our cv's, we are not so sure about the job market. So every bit of feeback matters to me...strategies that worked or did not.

[do not]

I just found a job at the same university as my partner. We were told by everyone not to mention anything about it until you have an offer. When they give you a formal offer, then start negotiating. Why would you raise the issue earlier, and give them any tiny bit of reason not to offer you the job?

[jini]

I would also recommend waiting until you have an offer in hand before you say anything. No matter what, it is easier for a school if your spouse doesn't need their help finding a job. Furthermore, whether a school can work out a spousal hire for you is likely less an issue of institutional commitment and more about specific random individualized circumstances - circumstances that even departments won't be able to predict when they're doing their search.

I've seen it happen on a number of occasions that a spousal hire creates some bitterness in a college or department. If you apply for a job and the search committee chair is bitter about a previous spousal hire, s/he could leave you out of the interview pack just because of that bitterness (even if the dean and dept chair might have been happy to work out a spousal hire for you).

You want departments to be so impressed with you from your interview that they want you badly enough to do everything they can to get your spouse hired. What you don't want is for them to spend your entire interview wondering if they like you enough more than the person without a spouse to negotiate with another department for a spousal hire.

Even if the department is happy to coordinate spousal hires on principle, such hires do take a lot of extra leg work. You don't want to ask them to do all that leg work before they've made up their mind that they really want you. It's really not so simple as "if a school supports spousal hires it won't hurt my chances to tell them." Policy is different from practice. There are too many points in the application process where that information could hurt your chances.

[anon]

I think the rule of thumb is to bring the issue of spousal hire after the offer is made. Like others, I see no reason to play a gamble that there might be one person on the search committee to feel overburdened about the spouse issue and decide against your candidacy. Once you have an offer, then you have some leverage to request and demand things, not before then.

The only exception, which I've seen people doing it successfully, is that one person already has a tenure track job or tenured in a good place, and would only like to move when the spouse is offered a job in the same institution. In that case, they often state it in the application cover letter that their partner is looking for a position in that area at the same time. But if both of you are ABDs or fresh PhDs, I wouldn't try this tactic.

[PhD Done]

Thanks all. When you say that mention about the spousal accomodation after the offer is made, does it not put the spouse at a disadvantage of not getting a TT offer? The reason being, most places will give you maximum of 2-3 weeks to accept or decline the offer.

If I let the interested department know after an offer is made to me, then would it be logical to assume that a TT position for my spouse (along with the separate campus visit, interview, negotiations) will happen iver the 2-3 weeks?

Or should I let them know of my spouse after I get invited for a campus visit? That way both of us can interview (different visits) at the same time period. This will also give the interested parties some time to do the leg-work.

Any thoughts?

[anon]

If the department like you enough, they will give you much longer time after the offer to figure out the spousal hire. I've seen a few months or longer.

I wouldn't be so confident that if you mention the spousal hire during the interview, that they will go out of their way to schedule the interview for your spouse and make the offer at the same time. Perhaps for a super, super-star, maybe, but even a few superstars I've seen made the request of spousal hire after the offer.

[worth mentioning]

Also, some universities have very explicit policies about spousal hires, in both directions. There are those that won't do it regardless and there are those that will bend over backwards to make them possible (I've yet to discern a pattern in what determines this). So, while most of the advice above is consistent with what I've heard, it's also good to realize that "best practices" at some places aren't necessarily going to help you at others. That to say, if there are particular places you are especially keen on, I'd recommend looking into their recent histories to potentially help tailoring your approach accordingly.

An unrelated point - for those people I've known who've successfully navigated it as ABD/early career folks and approached it before having an offer, it's almost always come via the advisor letter, not in their own materials.

[PhD done]

Thanks both of you for your thoughts. I very much appreciate your feedback. I am realising that there are no fixed paths to this route. Maybe I will come up with my own strategy. Who knows?!