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Post by formergradstudent on Mar 31, 2011 13:29:10 GMT -5
I really can't, all I will say it was quite devious. I think any more will reveal who I am and who they are, sorry. Watch out for VA school(s).
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Post by some thoughts on Apr 1, 2011 9:49:57 GMT -5
I gave up on the academic dream just this past month. This was my second time on the market, I graduated last spring. It is sad to work for soemthing for about 6, I guess not seven years and not attain that goal. What I think is even more sad, is that I wasn't training for an olympic gold, I was going to school, living a life of poverty, so that I could be a thankless Sociology Professor. I loved the autonomy that grad school afforded, and the intellectual stimulation of thinking up a research question, and answering it (within the budget I had). It was fun. Still, it was getting me into debt, and causing an unbelievable amount of stress. I went on an interview last month, and well, felt like I was just putting on a show (I was for the school) but also for myself. It has been hard, and I have not the energy for being an overworked junior faculty. Still have not heard back from school, but they have engaged in some, let's just say underhanded snooping around into my history at my school, weird stuff (a Virginia School- all I will say). Anyway- give yourself a hug. Take one day at a time. remember, it's a structural issue, and not a personal thing, teh reason why we aren't getting jobs. Still, it's rough on the ego no matter how many times you tell yourself, but it gets easier. I too would discourage people from going into academia. Life is too short to dwell on the how things turned out. Every minute is a chance to trun it all around. My two cents... First, I would view an interview as a success. The fact that you got one bodes well for the future. If you stuck to it, I would not be surprised if you got more interviews in the future. They may not be your dream job, but I expect that you have a chance at looking at an offer and assessing whether it meets your criteria. Second, pursuing nonacademic jobs are a worthy cause. Certainly, you were probably trained for the tenure track, but your skills are useful elsewhere. If anything, having nonacademic opportunities may give you a sense of what you are willing to live with relative to being on the tenure track or being an adjunct. IMO, there are many individuals who are adjuncts or VAPs who could do much better in nonacademic jobs. There are many nonacademic jobs that compare favorably against being a tenured professor. This is, of course, subjective, but my point is that one should be thinking about the nonacademic job market as well. If one only things about the academic job market, then they are more likely to put up with being exploited as VAPs or adjuncts.
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Post by not qualified on Apr 1, 2011 14:04:42 GMT -5
Please allow me to share my predicament in this forum.
Just like many in this thread, I have applied to various positions, tenure track and VAPs and still has nothing. I only have one non-peer reviewed publication and doesn't have pedigree. I also have a non-traditional background - a bit older than most fresh grads and took longer in finishing my studies because I went to one of those graduate programs that don't support their students. I have a strong teaching experience, which was my bread and butter, but nothing much else. Now I stopped teaching to finish my diss.
I am starting to feel hopeless as I am not having any bite in the market. I looked around for non-academic jobs and besides one research job that I saw and applied for, there's nothing else that I qualify for, even gov't jobs. My diss is historical and so I don't have the quantitative skills of other sociologists. And I am in a financial predicament where I need to have something but still not wanting to wash dishes in restaurants. I feel such a failure and don't know what to do.
I would greatly appreciate any advice as I feel isolated as well, with no one who would understand to talk to.
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Post by trythis on Apr 1, 2011 14:43:44 GMT -5
to the previous poster- historical soc- you can try looking here: www.beyondacademe.com/It's a site and job board for historians specifically. I realize you're not exactly a historian, but maybe you'll find something. Also, from what I've been hearing from friends and otherwise, just because you don't exactly meet all the qualifications listed on a non-ac listing does not mean that they wouldn't be interested. Some places jsut write terrible ads and list the qualifications of the IDEAL candidate. Don't be afraid to apply. Non-ac jobs don't generally even take as long to apply for so give it a go. I am in nearly as bad as tough a spot as you, so I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture for you, but chin up and give it another push. Don't forget to check administrative jobs out as well.
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Post by feel for you on Apr 1, 2011 21:19:44 GMT -5
I've been reluctant to post this, but I'm hoping that it will shed some light at the end of the tunnel for certain people. I have NO peer reviewed pubs and have only a couple papers under review (both have been rejected at top tier journals but are now under review at less prestigious journals), and yet I got quite a bit of action this year. Last year was very dry for me...absolutely NO bites - not even a request for more information. This year I only applied to a dozen schools and got half a dozen phone interviews and/or requests for additional information, two on-campus interviews (I may still receive another invitation), and one job offer at a terrific SLAC (which I have already accepted). The only things on my side were that I was broadly trained in several areas (I suppose this makes me unique) and I have a very strong teaching record. To be honest, I feel extremely lucky that I got some bites since I have NO peer reviewed pubs and I know my competition (you all) does. Sure, you might consider the people on my committee as a group of individuals who provide a "pedigree" but the search committees that interviewed me didn't even know who my dissertation committee members were (they are actually very well known sociologists within their own respective areas). From my experience, there are some "tricks of the trade" (beyond Becker) when you are on the job market. I learned these "tricks" - the dos and donts - from both my experience serving on multiple search committees as well as my experience actually on the job market. My suggestion is that if you have a good friend who has been successful on the job market, you might want to talk to them and get some tips. Trust me that these small tips can go a long way.
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Post by not qualified on Apr 2, 2011 8:12:45 GMT -5
THanks very much for your encouragement and tips, 'trythis' and 'i feel for you'. I have looked at the suggested website before but i looked closer again and saw a hint of light from the website. At this point I really don't mind going out of the academe and would prefer a non-profit job to VAPing (although I still applied to the latter). THe former simply offers more stability and it also means doing more meaningful work. I haven't really applied to community colleges as I am resisting it - ending up in CC as an evidence of failure as a scholar. But maybe I should reconsider that. Thank you again. Good luck to all of us who are still looking.
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Post by Mileage Varies on Apr 2, 2011 8:48:29 GMT -5
Your mileage may vary, but I don't think teaching at a CC is a sign of failure at all (and is probably offensive to all of the CC instructors reading this board) and is, in fact, is a great opportunity to be able to reach out to a different type of student with a different lens of perception.
That said, as has been stated on the board in the past, using "Oh, I'll just get a CC job if things don't work out" as a back-up is very misleading. I have been applying to CC jobs for two years, and I have never once gotten a bite. I suspect this has something to do with my R1 "pedigree" and the fact that the classes I have taught in the past have not been at CCs (I have also applied to adjunct jobs at CCs to build up my credentials, but I don't get hired for those either.) There are probably other things I could be doing, such as attending events at local CCs and setting up meetings with faculty, but my point is that you shouldn't be thinking of this option as a fallback. It can be a tough road, as well.
For me, I'd love to be able to remain in my current geographic area and be able to reach students who may not have the same level of academic preparation as the average R1er. But that's just me, and that may not be at all what you want. I wish you all the best of luck as you continue your search!
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Post by not qualified on Apr 2, 2011 17:31:49 GMT -5
Thanks, 'Mileage Varies' for your insights. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone about my CC comment. Did not mean to offend anyone and I was just expressing myself without thinking of others. I am sorry.
I know that there is no certainty that I'd get a job at a CC but one of the reasons why I did not want to work at a CC was because I love teaching a variety of upper level courses to sociology majors. I have looked at some courses offered by CCs and they're mostly intro courses. Maybe that's okay, too, but right now I feel that it is a very constraining factor. Anyway....thanks again for your insights and again, I apologize if I offended anyone.
Good luck, again, to everyone.
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Post by 1234 on Apr 2, 2011 22:45:46 GMT -5
Just to complement what "mileage varies" said regarding CCs:
While we all might thing of CCs as less prestigious, and therefore assume that they are easier to get jobs, the thing is that search committees at CCs are just as concerned with fit as anything else. To put it more explicitly, with even more constrained funds for searches than other institutions, CCs are specially trying to avoid hiring people who will bail once the market improves, or someone who will clearly be unhappy there. Which means that more important than a stellar record, you have to have something that shows you are interested in teaching CCs long term, be it previous experience teaching at CCs, teaching classes like those taught at CCs and so on.
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Post by CC parttimer on Apr 3, 2011 7:09:09 GMT -5
The CC where I teach received 100+ applications for a full-time position this year. We are not in a large metro but not remote either. It is a different pool and process, but it's still competitive.
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Post by Hubris on Apr 3, 2011 20:32:25 GMT -5
Many institutions face the concern about hiring "overqualified" candidates who may leave soon or otherwise create problems because they're not at the type of institution for which they dreamed and prepared. Applicants from R-1 graduate programs may be disappointed (or shocked) at the level of students they have to teach, number of classes, poor technology, lack of intellectual stimulation, faculty powerlessness, and other problems. Search committees know this. There's no reliable way to filter through applicants to measure goodness-of-fit for this form of status inconsistency.
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Post by yo on Apr 5, 2011 10:25:35 GMT -5
giggity
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Post by its me on Apr 26, 2011 21:48:32 GMT -5
so it's me, the sad and discouraged job seeker who started this thread. it's great to see that so many people have gotten something from joining in, whether to offer advice and express similar concerns, or have a laugh, etc. i really did enjoy reading this over tonight and would like to say that fishing is awesome! also, my unsolicited advice is to find success where you can, so maybe i didn't get a job, i definitely did not, but i did just finish my dissertation and that's a great thing. best wishes to everyone for a productive/happy summer, s&d...
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Post by yay on Apr 26, 2011 22:50:05 GMT -5
congrats. hopefully now you can be happier and discouraged.
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Post by not qualified on Apr 27, 2011 7:22:22 GMT -5
i just want to share also that just when i thought i have hit the rock bottom of desperation, i got an interview for a VAP position which later offered me the position. What seems to be a bit of an ironic twist to my job search is that it was from a very reputable school that would be very good to see in my CV. The offer was not so bad also. In fact it was very good, at least for me, and compared to some VAP offers that I saw. Another plus was the location - it is in a place that i really want to live.
I will get some pubs out and hopefully, this stint would lead to better opportunities for the next round that is to come. but for now, i will enjoy this 'achievement' and pray for everyone who are still looking.
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