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Post by hunting on Jan 23, 2011 18:08:42 GMT -5
Is anyone applying, or thinking of applying, for government jobs--either federal or state?
I've begun looking at State research scientist jobs. I'm not sure what appropriate federal government jobs are out there, at least for positions near me (west coast) instead of around Washington DC.
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Post by laughthroughit on Jan 24, 2011 9:27:06 GMT -5
My dad keeps trying to get me to apply for gov't jobs if I don't land an academic one this year. But I want to be in the academy and I want to teach, so I'm not planning on doing this. In any case, I've looked around on the federal jobs site (you can search by state there too) just to see and there have been a lot of research and/or consulting positions posted in the past. I think what is "appropriate" to apply for depends on your areas of expertise. www.usajobs.opm.gov/
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Post by anonywolf on Jan 24, 2011 10:31:24 GMT -5
When you say "State," do you mean State Department or do you mean State government? State Dept typically hires for DC or overseas--there are field offices, but those positions come up only rarely. If you mean State government, then that's obviously not Federal. But there are tons of government agencies with offices all across the country, plus Army Civilian and things like that.
I have been applying to Federal jobs--primarily in the State Department--for over a year now. Even with a competitive hiring exemption, which means I have an officially recognized advantage in the hiring process, I have yet to even get an interview. Cold-call applications through usajobs.gov typically have a less than 10% chance of making it past the initial screening. So as far as a back-up plan goes, it's not like it's so much easier to get these kinds of jobs than it is to get an academic position. This is only at the Federal level. State government operates very differently.
That being said, it's better to compete in two (or many) pools than one! And there are all sorts of positions available across the country. You can set your geographic preferences when doing positions searches, so just take a look at what's currently available in your preferred geo area and see if anything appeals to you.
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Post by Fedcurious on Jan 25, 2011 14:57:53 GMT -5
Anonywolf, you mentioned that applicants using usajobs.gov have little chance of making it past the screening stage. What other ways are there to apply?
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Post by anonywolf on Jan 25, 2011 21:41:24 GMT -5
Anonywolf, you mentioned that applicants using usajobs.gov have little chance of making it past the screening stage. What other ways are there to apply? The issue isn't necessarily about how to apply, but rather has to do with the channels through which federal hires get made. There is a lot of internal promotion that happens, so many of the positions you see announced are also intended as merit hires for existing employees, but are required by law to be announced openly. A lot of federal hiring happens through conversion of contractors and consultants into full-time positions. There are also several hiring fairs and recruitment programs (like Presidential Management Fellows, the DIA Hiring Fair, etc). And, of course, a lot of hiring is done through direct connections and social networking. Just because the job is advertised on usajobs.gov doesn't mean it's actually a truly "open" position.
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Post by Fedcurious on Jan 27, 2011 13:45:56 GMT -5
Anonywolf, you mentioned that applicants using usajobs.gov have little chance of making it past the screening stage. What other ways are there to apply? The issue isn't necessarily about how to apply, but rather has to do with the channels through which federal hires get made. There is a lot of internal promotion that happens, so many of the positions you see announced are also intended as merit hires for existing employees, but are required by law to be announced openly. A lot of federal hiring happens through conversion of contractors and consultants into full-time positions. There are also several hiring fairs and recruitment programs (like Presidential Management Fellows, the DIA Hiring Fair, etc). And, of course, a lot of hiring is done through direct connections and social networking. Just because the job is advertised on usajobs.gov doesn't mean it's actually a truly "open" position. Thanks so much for your thorough reply! Do you know when/where the hiring fairs are held?
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Post by anonywolf on Jan 27, 2011 15:29:09 GMT -5
Thanks so much for your thorough reply! Do you know when/where the hiring fairs are held? They are held all year round, in various parts of the country. Many of them are invitation only, or are feeder fairs for various government fellowship programs (like NSEP/David Boren, EHLS Scholars and Flagship Fellows). For example, the Defense Intelligence Agency is having a hiring fair in DC from Feb 15-17. The application was available via usajobs.gov, so you had to apply to get an invitation to the hiring fair. You can set up a saved search for hiring fairs like that through the website. I have little experience with those, but I would guess that they are more open to "outsiders" than the job postings themselves. You might also want to look into the Presidential Management Fellows program. It's too late to participate this year, but if you're still going to be a grad student next year, it's worth a shot.
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Post by anonywolf on Jan 27, 2011 17:22:57 GMT -5
For example, here's something: careers.state.gov/students/programsThey are presently taking applications for the Fall 2011 student internship program at the State Department. Converting from intern to employee is one of the most common ways of getting a State job.
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Post by fedcurious on Jan 27, 2011 22:27:54 GMT -5
Anonywolf, Thank you so much for your help. As it turns out, I'm well past my grad student days. ;D I've had such a horrible experience on the TT that I'm seriously considering alternatives.
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Post by Well on Jan 27, 2011 23:17:42 GMT -5
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Post by Tahir Hafeez on Feb 21, 2011 9:13:37 GMT -5
Hello,
As a recruiter working in the federal space, I can tell you that it is hard to get into the government without veteran's preference. Having said that, there are a variety of programs that you can enter but they are scattered and hard to find -- particularly difficult for those wishing to pursue research outside of the physical sciences.
There is a hiring option called Scholastic Employment Program, which allows agencies to hire students who are about to graduate or have graduated within the past two years. However, these programs are not standardized and are used as needed by agencies so they are hard to find.
Another option are what amounts to critical positions for excepted service agencies. Similarly, this is a hiring option used as needed and it is not formalized anywhere. You simply have to search and find them.
I am working on one of these excepted hiring options for the Department of Defense right now with their Human Terrain program. This is a great way to get your foot in the door in the federal industry, and can open up doors for other jobs as you can obtain a secret security clearance through this position.
I am explicitly looking for social scientists, including sociologists for this international research opportunity. Because it is international, it has differential pay that makes this lucrative for a government position.
Please contact me at Tahir.Hafeez [at] baesystems.com for more info on immediate openings.
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Post by gradalready on Feb 21, 2011 10:02:52 GMT -5
There are other ways to crack the gov market. Try a lower level support position in fed gov, that is a good way to get a start. Try your undergrad/grad career services- many often have the annual or bi-annual govt career fair. Try Linked IN. Try contract work. The fed Gov can't do everything, the bureaucracy it has prevents many direct hires- so look into agencies or corporations that are for-profit which do the work the feds can't. There are so many in VA. You guys are researchers- do some research.
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Post by ounceofprevention on Feb 21, 2011 10:15:18 GMT -5
Hello, As a recruiter working in the federal space, I can tell you that it is hard to get into the government without veteran's preference. Having said that, there are a variety of programs that you can enter but they are scattered and hard to find -- particularly difficult for those wishing to pursue research outside of the physical sciences. There is a hiring option called Scholastic Employment Program, which allows agencies to hire students who are about to graduate or have graduated within the past two years. However, these programs are not standardized and are used as needed by agencies so they are hard to find. Another option are what amounts to critical positions for excepted service agencies. Similarly, this is a hiring option used as needed and it is not formalized anywhere. You simply have to search and find them. I am working on one of these excepted hiring options for the Department of Defense right now with their Human Terrain program. This is a great way to get your foot in the door in the federal industry, and can open up doors for other jobs as you can obtain a secret security clearance through this position. I am explicitly looking for social scientists, including sociologists for this international research opportunity. Because it is international, it has differential pay that makes this lucrative for a government position. Please contact me at Tahir.Hafeez [at] baesystems.com for more info on immediate openings. The Human Terrain System is highly controversial and has been denounced by the American Anthropological Association. Not to mention, several of the social scientists deployed with HTS units have been killed. Just know what you're in for before signing up for a project like that: zeroanthropology.net/2010/05/29/the-u-s-army%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cother%E2%80%9D-human-terrain-system/
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Post by formerfed on Feb 21, 2011 10:38:11 GMT -5
To go back to the discussion on 'real' vs. 'fake' gov't jobs, here's a couple tips I learned working in the Department of Defense for a couple years prior to grad school: 1. If the job says 'Local commuting area only', then it's already slated for someone 2. If the job has KSAs (Knowledge/Skills/Abilities) that sound oddly specific, the job is likely slated for someone. 3. You'll have a damn hard time landing a random government job if you aren't known to the hiring manager/supervisor. These jobs get literally hundreds of applications, many from qualified good people, and once you account for veterans points, someone who knows someone else, internal hires, etc., it's very, very hard to even make a long list of candidates, let alone a short list or an eventual offer. So bottom line: make connections with people already in the government offices/organizations you want to be in, and make them want to hire you. 4. Look for programs like the Presidential Management Fellows (PMF) program or other education-based hiring programs. They're competitive, but being a PMF is like getting a first-class ticket to a $80k+/year job within a few short years. PMFs are basically bred over the course of a couple years to become the heads of offices or senior analysts.
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Post by aninterview on Feb 22, 2011 9:43:50 GMT -5
I have a phone interview for a federal fellowship. Any advice from those of you who have negotiated the government interview process? How might the phone interview be different to/different from a TT phone interview?
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