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Post by anonime on Apr 15, 2011 18:34:42 GMT -5
Uhm, don't think so. Even if he blames the rise of VAPing to structural issues, he also blames it on overly enthusiastic people who talk about VAPing with such giddiness. Between VAPing and unemployment, I'd choose VAPing but to say that I choose VAPing so I can contribute to this structural problem is blaming the victim and say that the victim is happy to be victimized.
But that's just me and I took offense.
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Post by VAP on Apr 15, 2011 19:09:54 GMT -5
Ok, I reread his post, and I'm not sure what I was thinking the first time--I must not have read the whole thing. Offense taken here too. I've got three kids to feed. I can't tell them to hibernate for a year because of David's principles. Plus, I'm happy with the "test the waters" aspect of my VAP position and not having to start freaking out about tenure right off the bat. Whatever
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Post by boilerup on Apr 15, 2011 19:14:32 GMT -5
Purdue is losing a bunch of folks. I don't know if they will be hiring. But I don't know who in their right mind would take a job there.
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Post by anon on Apr 15, 2011 21:50:02 GMT -5
I have heard a number of people say that Purdue is full of loonies right now.
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Post by Maybe on Apr 15, 2011 22:40:21 GMT -5
I know Texas Tech tried to hire this year but lost their line of funding, so they might be trying to hire come next season.
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Post by guesses again on Apr 16, 2011 2:41:24 GMT -5
Guesses here again. Thanks for the responses, folks! I guess it's easy to get people to post on stuff that hasn't happened yet and we all know might not, but it it's interesting. Of course, what we really would want to know is more about departments outside of a mythical top-30/50 since that's where most of the jobs will be anyway. But I guess since there are fewer people at those places, less likely information will get out.
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Post by crimey on Apr 16, 2011 11:34:08 GMT -5
I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but I agree a little bit with David. VAP positions are like leasing instead of buying for the institutions. Instead of taking a gamble on a TT that would require investment for several years, they put out a VAP spot. Then, if they like the person, open a TT position and hire the VAP. At that point, they have essentially allowed a 1 year tryout.
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Post by VAP on Apr 16, 2011 15:45:44 GMT -5
I don't disagree that VAP positions are exploitative. But in an oversupplied market, many candidates don't have the choice to turn them down. My disagreement is blaming individuals for a structural problem. We are sociologists, aren't we?
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Post by Really on Apr 16, 2011 18:00:03 GMT -5
Exploitative? Really? I realize that they're not the greatest jobs, but exploitative? No wonder no one takes sociologists seriously.
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Post by anon on Apr 16, 2011 18:23:23 GMT -5
I disagree with the above posters who said UCLA will be hiring next year. They hired three new people this year (not one) and did an extensive search. It is unlikely this will happen again next year.
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Post by Nonsense on Apr 16, 2011 18:28:26 GMT -5
I'm not going to slam you, crimey, but I will suggest that your speculations have little to do with empirical reality. My guess is that you have little experience on the other side of a search committee. VAP positions generally open up when either (1) a tenured faculty is going on sabbatical or some other leave, or (2) the allocation request for a TT got turned down by the administration but they get a consolation prize because they still need somebody to teach the courses.
Do you really think that a department would deliberately ask for a VAP if they could get a TT position, setting themselves up for major searches in back-to-back years? There's just no incentive for a department to do this, because not only is it more work but you'll always get a better quality pool by advertising a TT position in the first place. Plus you're delaying the acquisition of a fully tenured department member by one more year, so you won't be able to make them take over as chair as quickly!
While the scenario you present does take place on occasion -- one-year VAP getting hired for a TT position the next year -- this is certainly not the norm, and is absolutely never the result of some grand scheme to get a one-year tryout.
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Post by crimey on Apr 17, 2011 14:12:29 GMT -5
You are correct in your assumption that I have limited experience. You are correct in your assumption that I have overlooked the administrative costs of the conspiracy I have proposed, and I agree that you are correct on most counts, but to say it is "never" the case is incorrect based on the limited experience that I do have with small colleges. I now know that I have experience mostly with anecdotal cases. This is encouraging.
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Post by drcompton on Apr 17, 2011 14:32:17 GMT -5
I think there could potentially be big advantage for the VAPs in the fact they are there and may have demonstrated a good fit--sort of the devil you know is better than the one you dont sort of thing and in fact this may not be a devil at all. Also, there is the flip side where a department wants to make sure to not be appearing to be playing favorites and as such may be weary of hiring the VAP. I do know of an anecdote where the VAP demonstrated a "bad" fit and thus was not in the running when the TT came along. My take on VAPs is to treat them like VAPs and stay on the market, you can at least gain more experience and build bridges that may be useful to you in the future.
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Post by Nonsense on Apr 17, 2011 17:32:34 GMT -5
... but to say it is "never" the case is incorrect based on the limited experience that I do have with small colleges. I now know that I have experience mostly with anecdotal cases. This is encouraging. Yeah, I knew that I should have never said "never" but I couldn't edit it after posting. "Rarely" would have been more appropriate. VAPships are very good for getting some teaching experience, and I got a couple of them when I know I would have been passed over for a TT position at the same institution. A responsible department will attempt to mentor a VAP, not just exploit the individual. YMMV, but I've been grateful for that, I know I'm a much better candidate now, and I'm looking forward to next year's market.
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Post by babelfish on Apr 19, 2011 10:00:56 GMT -5
Purdue is losing a bunch of folks. I don't know if they will be hiring. But I don't know who in their right mind would take a job there. Translation: I didn't make the shortlist at Purdue My guess is that someone in their right mind who worked their tail off for 6 years with the goal of securing a TT job in a Big-10 soc dept would take a job there.
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